The Hell Yes Entrepreneur Podcast | Becca Coaches Live: Why Refund Requests Are Not a Problem with Natalie FisherI’m coaching live again here on the podcast this week, and I’m sitting down with Natalie Fisher. This is another great opportunity to witness the vulnerability of being a client and the intensity of being a coach, and how we get results for our clients over here at Hell Yes Coaching.

Natalie is a successful career coach who helps her clients get to the six-figure mark in their career doing work they genuinely love. She helps her clients with their beliefs and mindset when it comes to interviews and negotiations, but she needed to discuss some things around her own mindset when it comes to an unsuccessful launch and a couple of refund requests. This is the stuff I live for.

Tune in this week to discover why refund requests are not the end of the world and how I helped Natalie work through the drama these requests created in her mind. We’re also discussing an unsuccessful launch she had, and how she can go back to selling her program in the knowledge she’s providing incredible value and impact for the people who actually want to be there.

I’m always trying to figure out how I can overdeliver for you guys. Well, I’ve got some news. Three More is no longer just an 8-week course. If you join Three More, you now get lifetime access to the entire video library that we use inside the program, lifetime access to weekly group coaching calls, and the Facebook community where we gather to exchange high-level ideas. And all this for exactly the same as the 8-week price. So if you’re ready to sell your service and book yourself out, you need to get inside.

What You’ll Learn from this Episode:

  • Where Natalie is in her business in terms of revenue and where she wants to be in the near future.
  • The self-described slump Natalie is experiencing in the sales side of her business after an unsuccessful launch.
  • Natalie’s drama around receiving her very first refund request from a client and what she’s making it mean about her.
  • Where I can see Natalie being way too hard on herself after a couple of very minor setbacks.
  • Why refund requests are statistically inevitable and never an actual problem.
  • How Natalie needed to adjust in order to meet refund requests with compassion for the person who wants it.
  • Why it’s so much easier to see the bad side than it is to see the good in a situation.
  • How to start problem-solving from a mentality standpoint, not an action standpoint.

Listen to the Full Episode:

Featured on the Show:

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  • Natalie Fisher: Website | Podcast | LinkedIn

Full Episode Transcript:

Download Transcript 1

What’s up guys? Welcome to another episode of me coaching live. I’m sitting down with Natalie Fisher today. She is a career and mindset coach. We are going to talk about her own mindsets, the way that she views refunding people, and so much more. We go deep in this. She gets very vulnerable. I get very intense.

So I highly suggest you guys listen to this episode and listen to it all the way to the very end. I feel like the last ten minutes are just absolute gold. So thank you Natalie for coming in today, chatting with me. This is episode number 54. I am your host Becca Pike, and it is time for your weekly dose of Hell Yes Coaching. Let’s go.

Hey, guys. I’m Becca Pike and welcome to The Hell Yes Entrepreneur podcast, the number one show for entrepreneurs looking to create their first six-figure year. If you’ve got the drive and you know how to hustle but you’re not sure where to channel your energy, we’ve got the answers. Let’s dive into today’s show.

Becca: Hello Natalie. How are you?

Natalie: I’m doing amazing. Thanks for having me.

Becca: absolutely. Thank you for being on. Can you tell my audience who you are and what you do?

Natalie: certainly. So I’m a career mindset coach, and I help people get to the six figure mark in their career doing work they love. Mainly helping with interviews and difficult conversations throughout their career so they can get past that slump and start making the impact that they want to make and the money they want to make.

Becca: yeah, I love that. You have had some success in this, right? Whenever you had contacted our company, you told us a little bit about the last year that you’ve had. It sounds like your company is doing pretty well. Is that accurate?

Natalie: yeah. So last year was $160K. The before that was $100K. This year is kind of why I’m here to get some help to kind of get me back on track. So I have had some success. I love my business and I love what I do. So I’m just kind of in a little slump with the selling piece. I have a program kind of like your Three More style program, and I just want to hit my goals with selling that program and helping more people this year so.

Becca: for sure. So you’re just feeling a little slumpy.

Natalie: yeah.

Becca: So tell me about that. How does that show up for you? What’s it look like?

Natalie: so as I mentioned when I applied for the coaching, I had a couple of refund requests, which I’ve never had before. I’ve never had anybody ask me for a refund in the entire time that I’ve been in business, and these happened close together at the same time.

Like I am getting over it because a little time has gone by, and I know how I need to think about it. Like I know intellectually I think well, you know, my million dollar self doesn’t matter these two people. Whatever. They just weren’t my people. But I’m having a bit of trouble getting into that motivation again to sell the program fully.

Also I had two very successful launches last year. So one in September. I launched my group program for the first time after doing one-on-one, and I made $25K on the first one. I was really happy with that. My goal was 30, but I was ecstatic. Then the next time I launched it I made $20K. That was ecstatic. I’ve had people come through the program, get results. I’ve got dozens of interviews testimonials. So all that’s great.

Then I did another launch, and nothing. I had people joining but just like sporadically here and there. Just no deadline, no launch. Just people are like oh, this is great. I listen to your podcast. I’m going to sign up. So that was great. Then I got the two refund requests, and I had the launch where nothing happened.

So I think those circumstances are making me kind of what’s next. Can you really do this? Like just all that happening at one time. So I kind of know I just have to keep going, but it’s like intellectually I can keep trying to tell myself all of these things and then just the feelings are still there.

Becca: yeah. I mean, here’s what I want to know. what the heck are you making these refund requests mean? Like what are you making this mean about you?

Natalie: I guess like I know the right answer to that is like nothing. It doesn’t mean anything about me.

Becca: no, I don’t want your coach answer. I want your human answer. Tell me what you’re actually making it mean.

Natalie: yeah. Yeah. I guess I make it mean that I attracted the wrong people, and that I did something to attract those people. It was weird because they signed up and they were super enthusiastic. They were like, “Oh, we love your stuff. You’ve already helped me so much.” Then all of a sudden they were like, “This isn’t what I wanted at all. This isn’t adding value to me at all. I guess it just doesn’t make sense to me. I’m like I don’t understand why the last launch I had, I didn’t have any signups. I’m like I just don’t understand why.

Becca: The refund requests, was that before your launch that made zero dollars?

Natalie: No, it was after.

Becca: So you made the launch of zero dollars and then you had the refund requests.

Natalie: Yeah.

Becca: Okay. So you’re making this mean that you attracted the wrong people into your into your program or you somehow like made a mistake by allowing them in?

Natalie: Yeah, I mean it’s a program where you just sign up. They don’t apply or I don’t have any active role in that. They just sign up. I might talk to them on LinkedIn first in a DM or something to answer questions. But yeah, it’s like I have control over who I attract with the energetic availability that I have. Somehow, I attracted those people. Somehow I attracted a zero dollar launch after.

So it’s like the energy that I’m in somehow. Like I guess I’m just feeling confused and like, how did I attract it? What did I do? What do I need to do differently? I’m like I don’t know. I don’t understand it. That’s what’s coming up.

Becca: Okay. I want you to take a second to realize, and it’s going to be hard for you to really see how clear this is to me because you’re so deep in it. You’re like in the arena and I’m like in the helicopter view 3,000 feet up. Like I can see things right now that’s gonna be hard for you to wrap your mind around, but you are being so hard on yourself about this. Like you are making this mean so much more.

Like people come into Massage Strong all the time. They get a massage, and they ask for a refund. Like they didn’t like it, or they didn’t like their person, or they’re just that type of person that just wants a refund everywhere they go, right. A lot of times, and to be honest—and I’m not saying that this is exactly what happened—but whenever people come into my programs with that type of energy that you just explained. Like they’re like fangirling and they’re like obsessed and they’re so excited and their energy is up here, to me, that’s one of the biggest red flags.

I’m not saying that you would notice that and calculate it but like for the people that have asked for refunds, almost every time they come in with this energy of like, “Oh my God, you have all the answers. You’re going to fix my problems. You’re going to do this for me. I can’t wait. I can’t wait to start this program.” Oftentimes, they’re the ones that ask for the refund.

Now, that’s total stereotype, but I’m just wanting to show you a little bit that like you’re making it mean like they came in and they were so excited. So it must have been me that was the problem.

Natalie: yeah. Like they got in, they saw the content. Somehow they were disappointed. Then I also think well, lots of people have loved it. They’ve continued to be enthusiastic. They’ve gotten results right away or very quickly. So it’s like yeah.

Becca: yeah. But what if they are disappointed? What if they are amazing humans that found you, they liked your podcast, they came in and saw your program, and they genuinely didn’t like it. Why is that a problem?

Natalie: I guess it doesn’t have to be a problem?

Becca: no. You only make it a problem if you think about it like it’s a problem. I just think about it like numbers, statistics, right? Like statistically if, I can’t remember what the number was, but I think it was something like 10,000 people come through Massage Strong every quarter or something like that.

Out of 10,000 people, we’re gonna get some people that like either statistically, they don’t like their massage, or they don’t like their massage therapist, or something happened during their massage. Like I don’t know what could go on. We had construction going on next door one day that we didn’t know what’s going to happen. It was super loud. Like, statistically things are going to happen where people do not like what they’re receiving. Out of 10,000 people, right?

So like, how many people have you worked with in the last few months, and you’ve only had two people ask for requests? That’s phenomenal. You’re just looking at it so different.

Natalie: That’s what I’m thinking. I’m like I have 40. 40 people come through.

Becca: Yeah. Two people out of 40 were like, “Not for me. Thank you. Have a great day.” You’re like oh my god I’m not meant for this. I wasn’t created to do this. Versus all of the people, all the evidence, like just pure statistical evidence of people whose lives you’re changing.

Also, not to spank your ass while you’re down, but you’re really deep in significance versus the contribution, right? So you’re helping people with their careers. This is a very stressful part of someone’s life. Like, you’re talking to people who want more money. They want more freedom. They want a different job. They want help. Like they really genuinely want help, right?

Maybe they don’t like their job because they’re missing their kids bedtimes every night. Maybe they are zapped for energy. They’re like distancing themselves from their husband. Like it goes so much further. Like the ripple effect of what these people are dealing with go so much further.

Maybe they’re having daily anxiety. Maybe they’re gaining weight. Maybe they’re aging prematurely. They’re strung out. They’re overworking, whatever it is. You’re over here and you’re like, “Oh, maybe I’m not good enough. Like maybe I’m not doing it. Maybe I can’t do it.” You’re not thinking about all these people that need your help that you’re helping. Like you have slipped out of the contribution of what you’re doing. You’ve slipped out of like how deeply you affect these families and these people. You’re just thinking about you.

Natalie: Yeah, that’s true. It’s selfish.

Becca: Yeah. I’m not saying it to be like what are you doing? I’m just trying to show you like it’s not about you. Like you started doing this to help people, and you’ve helped so many people. The more that you stay in your mind about it and the more that you like make it mean something that it’s not, there’s all these people that are having all these problems that aren’t receiving the help that they need because you’re making this so much about you and about your life.

Like what would you need to believe to just completely… It’s not that I want you to forget about the people that asked for refunds, but like what would you truly need to believe. To not only be not upset about it, but to genuinely appreciate that they came into your life and asked for a refund?

Natalie: I’d need to believe that there were two humans who trusted me to pay money. Then that means there’s a lot more.

Becca: Yeah. Did they force you to take a deeper dive, a deeper look into your program?

Natalie: Well, that’s what I’m wondering. I’m like is that attention spent well there. Because I asked them both like why? I’m like yes, of course. I’m happy to give you a refund. I said I would if you weren’t happy. I said because genuinely that’s how I want to do business. I don’t want to have people who are not happy. So that question brings up like should I be taking a deeper dive? Because there’s tons of people who love it the way it is, and it works. Or should I be…

Becca: No, I’m just looking for how you could have benefited this in any way. Like did it force you to slow down? Did it force you to look? Maybe not. Like did it force you to think about your goals? How can you not only not be mad about it, but genuinely appreciate that this was put into your life?

Natalie: That’s a good question. I’m coming up blank.

Becca: It’s because you’ve been looking for evidence as to why this is so problematic and horrible that your brain can’t even accept the thought. You can’t even be creative enough right now to think of how it could be benefiting you.

Natalie: That’s a true statement.

Becca: Yeah. So try harder.

Natalie: Okay.

Becca: Look for how it’s benefiting you.

Natalie: Okay. It will strengthen my mindset when it happens again because it probably will.

Becca: It definitely well. That’s fantastic. Yeah, absolutely.

Natalie: So it kind of could have been put here to evolve me as an entrepreneur who’s, as I get more successful, statistically more things will happen like this.

Becca: Yeah.

Natalie: I could learn about that energy that people sometimes have when they come all enthusiastic.

Becca: By the way, just a disclaimer, not everyone that’s enthusiastic that comes into a program is a problem. I want to say this to my audience. Like if you’re enthusiastic, come into my program, please. I’m just saying…

Natalie: I’ve have lots of people like that too. I’ve actually been somebody like that who’s been like yeah, I want to start and then I wanted to refund. I’ve like been that person before.

Becca: Oh, is that real? Is that playing a part in this?

Natalie: Well, not for a long time. But I’m like yeah. I have done that before.

Becca: I know. But I wonder if that’s playing a part in it where you’re thinking back to your own time that this happened, and all the thoughts that you had about the program or about the person or whatever it was.

Natalie: Yeah. So here’s the—

Becca: Are you thinking that they’re thinking this about you?

Natalie: No, so here’s the interesting thing. When it happened when I did it, it was years and years and years ago. I was just in money scarcity. I just needed the money back for something.

Becca: Yeah.

Natalie: It didn’t actually have to do with the person. So.

Becca: Well and that’s something to remember too. I have people that have asked for their money back in my larger programs, like my $12,000 programs. Every time, almost every time, yeah—No. Every time that it’s happened, they had just been coached on severe money scarcity. Like severe. Like, I’m not okay. I’m freaking out. I don’t have enough money. Then I coach them on it and then they ask for a refund. It’s pretty crazy.

But I just want you to see like all the other options that the universe is offering to you that it’s not just you. It’s not like you just have a crappy program and you’re a crappy coach. Like that’s what you look at, but there’s all these other reasons that someone would ask for a refund. You have—

Natalie: It could have had nothing to do with me.

Becca: It has nothing to do with you. Right? But also like if it did have something to do with you, if these people were like genuinely like she’s just a really crappy coach. Like they’re allowed to have that thought too. It doesn’t need to change how you think about—You can’t just jump into other people’s thoughts and take them as your own. People think some shit about me, let me tell you, but that doesn’t mean that I’m gonna like adopt it. I’m not gonna take it in and absorb everyone else’s thoughts about me.

Natalie: Yeah, and I feel like I’m like I’m kind of asking myself now like why was this bothering me so much? Because intellectually I’m like yeah, I’m a coach. I know all this stuff intellectually. I know that’s true. But yeah, it’s easy to forget.

Becca: Well, and you might just not realize how common it is for people to ask for refunds. Like I know for some coaches, it’s more common. For other coaches, it’s not. I think it depends on how you position it, how you position the refund. Like I’ll give refunds in Three More because like it’s $1,500 to get in. But you can’t, like I say this up front in the welcome video. Like, I’m not gonna give you a refund because you’re having buyer’s remorse. Like I’m going to be the person that stands strong and says like you committed to this, now see it through.

So like if you want to refund, I have to be able to see that you’ve watched the videos. You have to watch all the videos. Like I have to be able to see that you’ve turned in some of the homework. If you go through the actual program and I see that you really tried and you really didn’t like it, of course, I’m gonna give you your money back.

But like if you come in and then you buy it, three days later you ask for a refund, and you didn’t watch any of the videos or you’re like 11% into the portal, that’s buyer’s remorse. Watch the stuff and see if you feel differently about it, right. So like, there’s different levels at which you can offer refunds where the person has to have skin in the game, right. So just taking a look at what that looks like as well.

I think that there’s a really great space for you to not only not be mad about this, but to uber appreciate it. It brought you here to this podcast. It brought you towards me. It brought you to this teaching. It brought you to new realizations. It brought you to looking at your program differently. I just want you to see the evidence for how this is working for you instead of just staring down the face of like how this is so bad.

Natalie: Yeah, no. I’m already feeling better about it.

Becca: All right, now I want you to take a second. I want you to think about these two people that asked for a refund. Okay. Get them in your head.

Natalie: Okay.

Becca: I want you to genuinely feel, find and feel love and compassion for these two people. I want you to think about the fact that they might have been in money scarcity. They might have been having fights with their spouse. They might have been just so fucking scared of what they just committed to. They might have had fear of success, fear of failure. They might have been worried out of their minds. Their kids might have been sick. Like you just don’t know.

I want you to genuinely feel love for these people, for this like compassion for these people. For them to be so excited to come in and then for something to happen where they have to leave, or they think they have to leave. Like how can you get to a place where in your mind you’re actually like hugging them? You’re like telling them that it’s gonna be okay. Like, think about them from that place. Right? It’s not about you.

Natalie: Yeah, I think I can just do that.

Becca: Well and it takes practice.

Natalie: Yeah.

Becca: I think loving and compassion for people is a practice. I think that not is a practice as well, right? Like, we all know those people that like if something happens to them, they feel wronged. They feel victim. Like they’ve practiced that mindset.

But there’s also people, and I think about my husband. My husband is like so good at this, and I’m learning how to be really great at this too. Like someone cuts him off in traffic, he is like practiced at genuinely wondering if they’re having a bad day. Like, he’s not like making it up. Like someone is mean to him and he’s like, “Dang, I hope they’re okay.” Someone can like shoot a middle finger at him, and he’s just like, “I’m gonna send them love. Like, I hope that they’re okay.” Right?

But like it’s a practice. So every single time that this pops up into your mind, I want you to genuinely consider how you can have love and compassion for them, how you can think of them as they are, which is just like normal humans with problems and like this is just a small, tiny, teeny hiccup in your life as a business and career and mindset coach.

Natalie: Yep. I can do that.

Becca: How does it feel when you think of them from that place?

Natalie: Like calm. Like just letting them go with love.

Becca: Yeah, the people that have asked for refunds in 30 More, the ones that I coached on money mindset, and they asked for a refund. I know that like there’s this human side of me, okay. There is a human side of me that’s like that sucks. Like I’m mad about it. Like why would they commit and then not commit? Like what does it mean and whatever right?

But like also I genuinely have compassion for them. Like, I know what it feels like to feel confused and to not know and to feel scared and the only thing that they know to do is like just retreat and ask for their money back. My overall feeling for them is like sad for them. Like, I’m gonna miss them.

Like they were my students. I cared about them. I knew their businesses in and out deep. Like I knew them. For them to be so deep in their own worries and concerns and thoughts about their business that they truly believed that the only way out was to like retreat or they didn’t feel comfortable to get coaching about it or they didn’t.

Whatever it was, like I have genuine compassion for them and so much love. I hope that I run into them one day. I hope that like I get a chance to talk to them when their emotions have been lowered, right? Like, I sit in that place so much more than where I could be in like whatever other lands there is of negativity.

Natalie: I was there a bit too because like I really genuinely wanted to talk to them and be like, and even if their decision didn’t change, it was just like because the goal was I really want to help you to get to the result. That’s what you signed up for. Like, my thought was they don’t really want the money back. They want their results. Because if they had their result, they wouldn’t be asking for their money back. But neither of them wanted to get on a call with me so.

Becca: But that’s all you can do. Like you can put yourself in their lane of sight. You can ask to coach them. You can ask to help them. Sometimes people get so deep in their own thoughts, they’re in their own arena, their own battling that they victimized themselves or they antagonize you or they label you as the problem or whatever it is. But like that’s gonna happen. It’s happened to me. It’s happened to all my colleagues, every coach that I know. Everyone has dealt with some type of refund situation. I definitely have figured out refunds at Massage Strong as well.

Like, you can only show up to the very best of your ability and you can thicken your skin when it comes to you’re putting yourself in a position where you are seen, you are out there, you have a podcast, you have your Instagram following, you have your audience, you have your email list. You’re a thought leader. You’re putting yourself out in front of all these people.

Of course when you throw opinions out there, there are going to be people that don’t like it. When you put a program together with all of your beliefs and all of your thoughts and ideas about career, there’s gonna be people that don’t like it. Like that is part of it. It is part of the job.

If you are really truly called to get out there and serve people, then you’re not going to slide into significance every time. You’re going to consistently stay in contribution and ask yourself how you’re going to stay on that side of the spectrum at all costs.

Natalie: Yeah, it’s interesting how it showed up for me because it wasn’t I would have said no, this is not about me. I know that blah, blah, blah. But then the feelings were indicating differently because otherwise I wouldn’t have been feeling that way.

Becca: Yeah. Well and I think you can have a lot of grace for the feelings. Like I think I went through like actual mourning when I lost some clients. Like that’s five stages of grief. Right? Like, I think there was like anger and then there was like frustration. There was sadness, there was whatever.

Natalie: Denial.

Becca: Acceptance. Yeah, denial. I’m like, you must be asking the wrong coach for a refund. But genuinely like I think that you can grieve the loss of a client, especially ones that you’re close with but even once that you’re not. Like you’re still building a relationship and putting yourself out there. I’m not ever saying that you should just not be sad about—Like you should move on, put your head down and fucking grind.

Like no. Like I have grieved clients, and I have been human. I have had thoughts, but I just refuse to live there. Like, I want to change the way people think about growing their businesses. I want people to understand that you can grow a business and not have all of this anxiety and not overwork yourself. You can make as much money as you want. You can do it while you’re a mom, while you’re a dad, while you’re not, whatever, I don’t care.

Like I was put on this earth to speak into this freaking microphone and talk to people all day. Like there will be people that don’t like me that want to refund, whatever. I’m here for it. Right? How can you have that belief as well, right? It’s just staying in contribution.

Natalie: Yeah, it’s a really powerful question. I had a dating coach and someone I really liked had broken it off with me. She asked me how could this be amazing? I’m like there’s just no way. Then she made me make a list of all these things, all these reasons why it can be amazing. Now I look back and I’m like it totally was amazing.

Becca: Yeah, it’s aways 50/50.

Natalie: Let’s just do the same thing here.

Becca: everything in your life is 50/50. There’s always 50% good and 50% bad. Like you can find the bad in anything, right? Like someone could gift me a yacht, and I could find problems with that. I’d be like well, I have to pay taxes on it. That sucks, right? You can find the bad in anything. You can also find the good.

Natalie: some things are just really easy to find the bad in it seems like, or sometimes it just seems like that’s just what—Yeah.

Becca: Yes. For sure. Well and our brains are trained to find the bad if we practice finding the bad. Our brains or trying to find the good if we practice finding the good, right. I truly believe. I was telling my husband this the other day. I tried to have friends yesterday I went to a book club. I’ll tell you what. I’m having a hard time. I have like a few friends that I just love. My husband’s always like, you should like get out more. I’m like but I just like hanging out at the house. Like I like my kids. Like I like you. I don’t want to talk to people.

So anyway, I tried to get a book club yesterday. They were so negative like to the point where I mean it was just gossip, gossip, gossip. I was thinking about how like, I wasn’t…How do I say this? It wasn’t that I was judging them or anything. I just was like this isn’t what I want to talk about. Like this isn’t what I like. Like, I just don’t…It’s so hard for me to go to the negative.

Like, it made me realize how practiced some people are in negative, and how well practiced some people aren’t. I have been living this life of like looking for the positive and genuinely finding compassion and like trying to really live in this other side of the spectrum.

I told my husband, I was like I think it’s just really difficult for me to take my brain there, to make things so problematic or to make myself a victim. Like I can’t quite get my brain there. Like it takes more effort.

Natalie: Yeah.

Becca: For me to go live in that world than it does for me to live in the world of like oh, this is good. This is fine. Like everything’s great. Like let’s talk about whatever.

Natalie: Yeah, or what is the good about that? Yeah, totally. I’m wondering if I can apply that same question to my launch that didn’t go as I’d wanted it to go. Like how was that great for me? Because it’s a really powerful question. I mean.

Becca: Yeah. My guess.

Natalie: My brain goes to confusion. It’s like I’m confused about why that didn’t work.

Becca: It’s a buffer. It’s a buffer. It is. It’s like well, it’s something to notice. It’s like if you’re acting confused about things, that’s a really great way to not have to put in the work to find out the true answer for what went wrong.

So like if you have a launch where you make zero dollars. If you just sit in confusion, well then you get to let yourself off the hook. Because you don’t need to actually get in and do the work to dig deep to find out what actually happened, to look at the statistics, to look at where it went wrong, what happened. Like what went right the first time. Because then you just get to throw your hands in the air. You’re like I don’t know. I’m confused. I’m really confused. I just don’t know how to do it. Right?

So, to me, confused is always a cop out. One of the reasons that I’m saying this is because this is my cop out okay. I’ve been coached on this. I have been—This is my thing. This is my thing that I’m constantly battling, which is finding myself confused.

I’m not confused, but I use confused as a coping mechanism. I’m very aware of it, and I’ve been coached on it so much. The last six months has been nothing but me not allowing myself to be confused about anything ever. Just no. I won’t. I won’t be confused. I make decisions. I figure it out. I’m learning how to stand into that self-concept. Right.

So for you, it’s like how has been confused really benefited you? I mean we could sit down. We’re not going to do that, but we could sit down and list all the ways that confused Natalie benefited from being confused, right? It’s so much easier to be confused than to dig your heels in the sand and figure out what happened, and problem solve and be vulnerable and get coached. Right?

Natalie: Yeah. Yeah. Because then my brain doesn’t look for more things. Although, I feel like it does go and look for things, but then it’s like, “Oh, that’s too hard. Let’s just move on.”

Becca: Yeah.

Natalie: Yeah.

Becca: Yeah, exactly. That’s why it’s benefiting you. Yeah.

Natalie: Okay. Thank you.

Becca: You’re welcome. I feel like this coaching session was me being very over caffeinated and kind of preaching at you. So I hope that you gained something from it.

Natalie: Yeah.

Becca: Are you feeling a little more clear?

Natalie: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, it was great. Thank you so much.

Becca: You’re very welcome. So I think the best thing that you can do from here is just a lot of self-reflection. I would get out a journal over the next hour or two while all of this is still fresh. I would ask myself how am I benefiting from being confused? How am I benefiting from sitting in this frustration with the people that asked for a request? How can I learn to love those people? How can I learn to love what happens, like the entire situation, right?

Really find compassion for the people that asked for the request to the point where it’s easy. It’s a practice. When they come into your mind, you just have love. You have compassion. You think about them from a loving lens.

Natalie: Okay, yeah. I think that’s actually going to be not too hard to do.

Becca: When you contacted us and you told us about the refund, like my strict coach intuition said that these are connected, the launch and the—It didn’t matter which came first, but it’s like if the launch hadn’t been zero, would you have had as many thoughts about the people that refunded? Probably not. You wouldn’t have.

Natalie: No.

Becca: Right. So like problem solving from a mentality aspect, not from an action aspect. Like it’s not about getting in there and like writing better emails. It’s like no, what are you telling yourself about yourself as a coach? Because that’s what’s affecting it. What are you telling yourself about you? Because your self-concept, the way that you’re viewing yourself, is the answer and the reason for both of these things happening.

Natalie: Yes. Yeah. I guess, for the launch, just one more thing. I’m like I fully expected that to be a success because my last two had been. I was like I fully expected it to be. So then it wasn’t, and then I had the disappointment and then the refunds. I feel like yeah, that’s true. I went back to thinking about myself differently, but only after this stuff happened. Not before.

Becca: Maybe the problem is that you fully expected it to be successful.

Natalie: Yeah. How was that a problem? I’m like I thought I was supposed to do everything from believing it was gonna work even though I’m gonna keep going? Anyway.

Becca: Well, yes. I think that people should sit in the belief that things are going to work as much as they possibly can. But there’s also like a toxic positivity that can come from it to where like I don’t know how it went down. I can’t go back in time and see. I think that coaching on this launch could be a whole ‘nother podcast episode. So I don’t want to go too deep into it.

Natalie: No worries.

Becca: I can’t look back and see how you handled this launch, but all I’m saying is if you approached your first two launches as if like okay, I don’t know how this is gonna go. I’m gonna do my very best. I’m going to show up the best that I possibly can.

Then there was even an ounce of like oh this is gonna be great. Like it’s just gonna sell itself. I’m just gonna put these emails together. I’m gonna put it out there, and they’re just gonna flood in, right? Like that’s a huge red flag.

Like no, each launch should evolve strongly. It should be significantly more valuable. We should go back through the emails and scan them and like really put our new brain, everything that we’ve learned in the last six months, everything we learned in the last year. Like evolve these emails, evolve the podcast episodes. Every launch should be better. It should be more valuable for your customers. If there was an ounce of you at all that was like oh, I’ve done this twice. It’s gonna be great. Everything that I have here is fine and good. Then you probably saw the results of that.

Natalie: Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, totally. I think you just gave me the answer to clear that actually.

Becca: Yes. Get out of confusion. None of this stuff just happened randomly, right? Like they didn’t ask for a refund and you like don’t know what happened. Your launch didn’t go to zero and you don’t know what happened. Like you’ve just got to dig for it. Like you know what happened. It’s just harder to say that you know what happened or to find out what happened than it is to just be like I don’t know. It just sucks. It’s hard. But also, my brain goes there too. So I’m not judging you. I’m just trying to show you.

Natalie: Yeah, no I get it. I’m like I’m gonna keep going anyway, but I just want to make sure that I’m keeping going with the best insights that I can get from the experience. Yeah.

Becca: Go serve the hell out of your clients. Go kick ass. Give them hand over fist value. Love them, even when they leave you.

Natalie: Okay.

Becca: Like that’s how you want to show up in the world.

Natalie: Yeah. Okay.

Becca: Okay.

Natalie: Feels good.

Becca: Okay, great.

Natalie: That’s amazing. Thank you so much.

Becca: Yeah, you’re very welcome. Thank you for being here. Can you tell my audience where they can find you? I know that you have a podcast as well if you want to shout out.

Natalie: Yeah. So it’s called Get A Six Figure Job You Love, and it’s on Apple and anywhere you listen to podcasts. I’m on LinkedIn. Just Natalie Fisher is my name. You can look me up. I’m a career mindset coach. Yeah, that’s where I hang out is on LinkedIn more than anywhere else because that’s where my people are. My website is

Becca: Awesome. Well, thank you for being here. Anybody that is interested in contacting Natalie, please do so. We’re gonna link up all of her information in the show notes as well. All right have a great day.

Natalie: Thank you. Thanks so much. You too. Bye.

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